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john555Fri May-01-20 05:49 PM
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"Time Periods of Novels"


          

Has anyone ever noticed that the time periods for the Sackett stories given in "The Sackett Companion" do not match up too well with the time periods as given in the books themselves? For instance, "The Sackett Companion" gives the period for "The Daybreakers" as 1870 to 1872. In chapter 3 of the book, LL has Tyrel tell the reader "in 1867, the Santa Fe Trail was an old trail." Later, in chapter 14, Tyrel is talking with Tom Sunday and responds to Tom's comment on how long they have known each other with "five years". This all indicates that the Time Period of "The Daybreakers" is 1867 to 1872. My guess for the errors is that LL enjoyed writing the tales a lot more than re-reading them to check dates. (Thank God!) But it can affect the chronological order of the stories for those interested in such.

Justintime

  

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epeterdSat May-02-20 07:22 AM
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#1. "RE: Time Periods of Novels"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I kinda figured it was more just a general idea, than a definite time for most of them. I don't remember that most of them had anything where you could put a definite date, but it's been a few years since I've read them. I need to read them again sometime soon.

peter

  

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john555Sat May-02-20 11:23 AM
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#2. "RE: Time Periods of Novels"
In response to Reply # 1


          

I did that myself. Mainly because it just gave me a reason to read them all again. I found there were different things that gave an indication of the date. And, nearly all of them have something in them to indicate a date or where they fit. In "Sackett's Land", Barnabas tells the reader in chapter 1 that the year is 1599. In "Ride the River", LL tells the reader that James White, the shyster lawyer had an annual income that was a good income for 1840. LL sprinkled these things throughout the books. The one book that I found most difficult to peg was "Mustang Man". The commonly used order for "Mustang Man" seems to be after "Mojave Crossing" and "The Sackett Brand". I think the natural order for "Mustang Man" is actually before "Sackett" for two reasons. In Chapter 15 of "Mustang Man", Nolan has a conversation with Ollie Shaddock in which Ollie mentions Tyrel and Orrin. Nolan responds that he does not know them but has heard of them. Tye, Orrin, and Nolan all came together at the final shootout in "Sackett's Brand". So "Mustang Man" has to be before that. And Nolan does not mention knowing Tell which would be odd unless the book is before "Mojave Crossing". And, the reason I would place it before "Sackett" is because in chapter 14, Nolan negotiates a horse swap where he tells the camp riders he is headed for Mora to visit relatives. The riders say they have heard of the Sacketts of Mora but do not refer to Tye as the Mora gunfighter. He became known as the Mora gunfighter because of his shootout with Tom Sunday at the end of "The Daybreakers" in 1872. But here's another of what I consider good questions. What makes a book a Sackett book? LL wrote in "The Sackett Companion" about a separate series for Talons and one for Chantrys. But the many interactions with the Sacketts make that virtually impossible. So, then you can add them to the chronological order for an even more interesting list. I know some of this is just conjecture but most of it is how LL wrote it.

Justintime

  

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blamourSat May-02-20 12:17 PM
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#3. "RE: Time Periods of Novels"
In response to Reply # 2


          

In reading these books we have to be careful not to have expectations higher than LL had for himself. It is totally true, Dad liked writing better than rereading. It is also true that fans often have higher expectation for Dad's "historical accuracy" than he did himself. My father wrote three books or more a year. He lived and worked in a house crowded with two kids, a wife, two dogs, a bird, and sometimes a housekeeper. He kept a journal, documented his work outs, and kept up a lively correspondence with people all over the world.

He studied history, but he did not check his work. He used history as a back drop and as inspiration for his work but he was an entertainer not a slave to accuracy. These same issues played out when referencing his own work.

It is also important to know that, at least until the late 1970s, he never expected his books to remain in print. Most authors of paperback originals saw their books disappear from existence, go out of print, within months of their release. "The backlist" a publishing term for an author's old titles, was something that barely existed for middle of the road genre authors in those days. For example it was commonly thought (and likely true) that only the movies kept Ian Fleming's James Bond novels on the shelves, while his Chitty-chitty Bang Bang was a perennial (at least for awhile) because it was aimed at generations of kids.

So worrying too much about what you had written, even in a series, was thought to be a bit of a waste of time ... at the time. It is also true that editorial standards were pretty lax. Today it is impossible for the publisher to keep an editor employed (given that they can't just work on the L'Amour books) long enough for them to even read the whole catalog, let alone become familiar enough to remember the details. That's where I come in. In those days Dad dealt with a senior editor on the big issues, but the details were handled by a junior guy or gal and they didn't last long in their jobs either.

The Sackett Companion, if memory serves, wasn't entirely written by Dad. Some of it was pulled together by Bantam Editors. Dad just wrote the bigger sections. I don't know if that means if he screwed up these details or if they did but it was a collective work. I tried to stay out of it and still generally ignore it because it was never as buttoned up as I'd have liked but I wasn't in a position to deal with it at the time. I was in school and working on other things.

Dad's work is definitely better if you just try to enjoy rather than analyze it ... at least until you get to the point where you are looking at it through the lens of publishing history or the life of a middle class author of the era.

When I go into the weeds of actual history, which the Western genre has never really been serious about, I get lost trying to work out all the issues with most Westerns. As much as Dad fought the distinction, it's a genre separate from Historical Novels because it has different rules ... it's kind of an American Fantasy like a lot of the "Fantasy" genre is sort of European Fantasy. Each relies on the basic history or conventions of one culture or the other, but each plays out tales of freedom and morality and exploration according to a different set of rules.

A good example of Westerns (in general) having only a general connection to history is the fact that classical or traditional westerns take place in a period that lasted less than 30 years. They often portray multiple generations growing up in this brief era. They tend to compress the history of earlier or later events to push them into this era. Odd, but that's what has happened. In the last 50 years the genre has expanded it's historical envelope slightly. Dad had something to do with that, and with getting the history to be a bit more accurate. But it wasn't something he wanted to do with every story. He also liked to play in the world of the traditional Western. He didn't think about it all that much, not like I do, he just sort of did it. Later in his career he didn't want to be tide down to traditional westerns, he occasionally wanted to play by the rules of Historical Novels, but he didn't worry about it all that much.

  

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john555Sat May-02-20 01:55 PM
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#4. "RE: Time Periods of Novels"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Beau, thanks very much for your response. It is very, very interesting. I would just like to add that, in my opinion, your dad through his books created a tapestry with characters bigger than life that described the settlement of a great nation. Not just the Wild West. Based on what you wrote, I think it all the more amazing that his story lines maintained as much of a sense of chronology as they do. It would be silly to expect it to be perfect. But part of the fun and enjoyment of reading his tapestry is looking for a chronology that can run from Tattan Chantry to Tom Chantry with all the Talons, Chancys, Chantrys, and Sacketts in between. And, maybe, just maybe , your dad inspired people to check out some of the historical facts and figures he sprinkled throughout his stories. I know I was. Was your dad another Steinbeck or Hemmingway? No, but he was sure a lot more fun and interesting to read. :-)

Justintime

  

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Tennessee DaveSat May-02-20 10:37 PM
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#5. "RE: Time Periods of Novels"
In response to Reply # 4


          

I agree.

Tennessee Dave

"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God"
Author unknown

  

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Tennessee DaveSat May-02-20 10:46 PM
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#6. "RE: Time Periods of Novels"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Beau, if your Dad was still living and I told him Mr. L'Amour i just enjoy your books so very much.
What would be his comment? I mean would he say simply thank you, or perhaps throw his arms wide and say great. Or maybe, you're a good man Charlie Brown. So was there a usual reaction?

Tennessee Dave

"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God"
Author unknown

  

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Mike ShafferFri May-08-20 06:39 PM
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#7. "RE: Time Periods of Novels"
In response to Reply # 6


          

TD....Somehow, you always have the craziest, gun slinging, shoot from the hip, best questions. I hope Beau gives this one some thought.

"We don't have any law here. Just a graveyard." LL from TREASURE MOUNTAIN

  

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Tennessee DaveFri May-08-20 07:15 PM
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#8. "RE: Time Periods of Novels"
In response to Reply # 7


          

Just thought Beau would get a smile out of that Charlie Brown crack.🐒

Tennessee Dave

"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God"
Author unknown

  

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blamourTue May-12-20 03:20 AM
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#9. "RE: Time Periods of Novels"
In response to Reply # 6


          

I'm sure he'd just thank you. In this business you can't take too much responsibility for the reactions of others. They are actually making the experience of reading your work what it is as much as you are AND you can't get too close because some people will never let you go. It was always a hard call ... especially when there was work to be done.

  

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Tennessee DaveTue May-12-20 04:57 AM
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#10. "RE: Time Periods of Novels"
In response to Reply # 9


          

Yes, that celebrity thing is a hard thing to understand. I know you all think differently than your average person. It's a different world entirely. That's why your average person will forever scratch their head in wonder.
It's also, I think, something I generally do not understand.
Oh well, I can live free and easy. Maybe that's better.
Tell me, Beau, would you trade your life for the life of a seccessful unknown.
But many years ago Mickey Gilly(sp) told me when i asked him about how that life was for all those years, he told me, 'it's a ride you wouldn't believe.'
I guess there is that.




Tennessee Dave

"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God"
Author unknown

  

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