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blamourTue Nov-26-19 02:43 AM
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"Two of this year's movies ..."


          

If you are interested in the life and times of Louis L'Amour and his family there are two good films out this year that touch on the environment that surrounded us. Neither is "the truth" by any means, Hollywood movies don't tell the "truth" but they can pass along a sense of a situation or the time and place. The two films are Once Upon a Time ... in Hollywood by Quentin Tarantino and Ford vs Ferrari by James Mangold.

OUAT...IH is a comedy/"what if" drama that deals with an aging Western star and his loyal stunt man and looks at the period when counter cultural values began invading Westerns. This was a pretty dark period for Western movies but it is the era that MADE Louis L'Amour a household name. Dad straddled both sides of the traditional/counter culture divide and played both to his advantage. Unlike many others who used a counter culture vision to tear down the sense of what a western was Dad used genre stretching novels like The Californios to broaden his appeal.

If you know the story of the "Manson Family" you can see the warped aspects of various western elements all through it. OUAT...IH documents a long collision course between some of the Mansons and ... well, not a pair of real cowboys, but something good enough for Hollywood, an old western star, a stuntman, an Italian actress and a very good dog. Unlike most films where so-called 'square culture' goes up against counter culture, the cowboys win.

It is also a truly loving postcard to the LA of Louis L'Amour in 1969. It's as close a recreation of the Hollywood we lived in at the time as you're going to see in the movies, even though it's typical Tarantino and all played a bit tongue in cheek. We were slightly on the outside of the film and TV world but I can still remember having dinner with Sam Wannamaker (who directed Catlow), one of the "real people" amusingly depicted in this film. Exaggerated and amusing? Yes ... but also weirdly accurate.

Also nicely accurate is the nice but also, appropriate to the era, modest home that the character, Rick Dalton, lives in in Beverly Hills. This, not the crazed mega mansions you see these days, was how a lot of reasonably well off people in Hollywood lived in those days. As the film points out, the were just a handful of studios and only 3 networks. Everyone in the business had to be prepared for protracted periods without work.

For more on the Louis's transition from traditional westerns to his own secret sauce of material that appealed to counter culture check out the introduction to Louis L'Amour's Lost Treasures Volume Two.

FvF takes a look at my mother's side of the family. My uncle, her brother, was a race car driver coming along in the wake of guys like Carrol Shelby and Ken Miles. In fact Miles was a bit of a mentor to him and he drove cars for Shelby on several occasions. Some of the "missing time" in the film between the two Le Mans races was filled (if I remember correctly) with the three of them working on different parts of developing and racing the Shelby Daytona.

We spent a fair amount of time at dusty sun blasted tracks like Willow Springs, Laguna Seca, and Riverside International Raceway when my uncle was doing the sort racing that you see Ken Miles doing in the beginning of FvF.

As I said, neither of these films is "what it was like." That's a high bar to set for anything fictional. But they do reflect what it looked like and a sense of what some of the people were like in those days. If anything, WEST Hollywood, the neighborhood we lived in, was more over run with hippies than anything shown in OUAT...IH. It was great to see Kurt Russel in that film. He and Jody Foster, Keith Carradine, Micheal Douglas and only a few others have bridged the gap from then 'til now and are still working.

  

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DerekTue Nov-26-19 02:02 PM
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#1. "RE: Two of this year's movies ..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Wow, thanks for all of the insight Beau. I obviously would have never known ANY of this. I had been planning to see FvF, but I like knowing it has a link to your family.

I wasn't expecting to see OUAT...IH but have now reconsidered. Without reading your post I would have considered it "just" more Tarantino fare (not being dismissive of his work - he does great stuff).

Knowing what you've shared here I'd view the movie with a bit of a different set of eyes.

I'm looking forward to both.




"In case of snakebite always
carry a small flagon of
whiskey, and furthermore
always carry a small snake."
W.C. Fields






"In case of snakebite always
carry a small flagon of
whiskey, and furthermore
always carry a small snake."
W.C. Fields

  

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CarcosaTue Nov-26-19 04:08 PM
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#2. "RE: Two of this year's movies ..."
In response to Reply # 1


          

Saw them both and liked them very much.

My OUATIH observation to my better half as we walked out of the theater (we both loved the film) was that, unlike many films shot as period pieces, this film seemed like it was MADE in 1969, so subtle was it's handling of period setting, and it was the most free of Tarantino excess weirdness...as much he will/can manage anyway.

"God makes a man before he
kills him"

  

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blamourWed Nov-27-19 10:03 PM
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#3. "RE: Two of this year's movies ..."
In response to Reply # 2


          

I agree. If you want an unfortunate example of trying WAY too hard to do period, see the short lived TV series Mob City. It had just about everything individual thing going for it but, both the script and the production departments were just RUBBING YOUR NOSE in what they were doing and SCREAMING "period LA."

As far as I can recall this is the only Tarantino movie with a truly happy ending and it even had "happy ending music" over it!

FvF also was pretty effortless when it came to the period stuff. It's my guess that both films had almost no CGI. Probably just some touches of CGI to cover up practical effects or things in the distance. OUAT...IH didn't even do that. As "accurate" as it was in recreating Hollywood there are many shots of LA where they didn't try/couldn't afford to CGI out newer buildings and the like. I think it was a good call, make the close up street level stuff look right and then don't hassle the details of the vistas. Having said that realize I know a lot about LA architecture and grew up in Hollywood and Westwood (where much of the stuff with Sharon Tate at the movies was shot).

I really never expected to hear "Ninety-three, K H Jaaay..." coming out of a radio ever again!

As I said, Westwood Village, where she went to the movies, and the drive down Wilshire boulevard to get there when she picks up the hitchhiker. Is right near the house we moved into after we moved out of the funkiness of West Hollywood.

Westwood is/was (it's changed a lot) the little downtown area for UCLA. One door east of the theater she went into was one of the Hamburger Hamlet restaurants which were sprinkled around LA from the late 1940s til the last one closed last year. An upscale version of what we used to call a "coffee shop" back when that meant a full service restaurant with a big menu. We ate there as a family very often. I can also remember sitting at the counter late at night making notes on the script to the audio of Unguarded Moment and in the next chair was Neil Simon doing the same thing. We often ran into Charles Bronson and his family there too. We didn't know them, they didn't know us (though I was later in an acting class with his daughter), but he knew who dad was and so there was sometimes a wave as one family entered or exited.

When I mentioned up above that it was nice to see Rick Dalton, a mid to low level movie star, portrayed with an appropriate level of income I was talking about this sort of stuff. This was just an average restaurant, good food, clean, well run. A lot of celebrities lived pretty normal lives because there wasn't the sort of money floating around that there is now (for people who are moving up in their careers) and no one cared that much and when they did they were polite.

  

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Les Down UnderThu Nov-28-19 07:44 PM
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#4. "RE: Two of this year's movies ...Ki"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It looks like someone got their nose out of joint with FvF

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/117788196/why-movie-ford-v-ferrari-blackflags-three-kiwi-racing-heroes
:7
Les
Isn't making a smoking section in a restaurant like making a peeing section in a swimming pool?


:7

Les
The English Language is weird. It can be understood through tough thorough thought though.



:7

  

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blamourFri Nov-29-19 03:50 PM
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#5. "RE: Two of this year's movies ...Ki"
In response to Reply # 4


          

My take is that that's a 'click-bait" headline, ie. intended to sound controversial to generate click throughs, in a click-bait story that, while fairly well written, gently experiments with several aspects of controversy so that the editors can pick one of them to emphasize with a headline.

The new journalism. Everything is outrage because that's what sells ... or creates web traffic.

I hate the idea of a "true story." The very term is an oxymoron: if it's a STORY, it can't literally be true. Anything filtered through the mind of a storyteller is manipulated to make the points they want ... that's what we pay them to do.

There's a LOT left out or acknowledged in subtle ways when it comes to the compressed timeline presented in FvF. The car that was the inspiration for the GT40 was developed by Lola in England, maybe that's supposed to be the first car that Ken Miles tests on the airfield but it's not clear. The Shelby Daytona effort is alluded to by showing the wooden frame of the Daytona and then finally showing a full unpainted aluminum Daytona in the foreground of a shot at the end. That car, which was a pretty mature project even in the early GT 40 days, was developed by Peter Brock. The Shelby Cobras couldn't compete on the high speed straights of places like Le Mans because they weren't aerodynamic enough so the Daytona was created to slice away that drag.

It completely unmentioned in the film that the Daytona was ALSO intended to challenge the Ferrari GTOs and did so very competitively. Ken Miles actually seemed to like it better than the GT 40 but it was neglected when the focus turned firmly to the mid engine GT 40. My uncle drove a Daytona in one of its few races. In my opinion it was a platform with a lot of potential but it was a bit old fashioned even as it got to the point where it was a viable race car.

Once you go to "true" the question is how deep do you dive, how many other details do you include. The characters spend at least 1/3 of the time covered in the film sleeping but we sure don't see much of that! "True" is such a trap.

Some inside poop that would make this film look silly: Henry Ford II probably took on Ferrari because his wife liked Europe. Not the sort of "truth" from which a great film is made!

It is possible, because Daytona creator Brock ended up working for Datsun in the late '60s, that the Daytona inspired the look of the 240Z as much, if not more, than the E-Type Jag.

  

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Les Down UnderFri Nov-29-19 07:42 PM
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#6. "RE: Two of this year's movies ...Ki"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Typical if it bleeds it leads writing :7. In reading the reviews I hadn't even caught on to the Kiwi link. OUT LA has just arrived on DVD down here so it may soon be on my list.

Les
Isn't making a smoking section in a restaurant like making a peeing section in a swimming pool?


:7

Les
The English Language is weird. It can be understood through tough thorough thought though.



:7

  

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DerekSat Nov-30-19 03:19 PM
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#7. "RE: Two of this year's movies ...Ki"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Just to piggyback on your observations of "true" stories; I'm reminded of a podcast that a colleague of mine was listening to. The young actor Michael B. Jordan was the guest. Mr. Jordan commented that if you see Hollywood advertise "based on a true story", you can be certain that most of the time its full of...well, the stuff that a lot of LL's characters tried to avoid stepping in.




"In case of snakebite always
carry a small flagon of
whiskey, and furthermore
always carry a small snake."
W.C. Fields






"In case of snakebite always
carry a small flagon of
whiskey, and furthermore
always carry a small snake."
W.C. Fields

  

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Tennessee DaveSun Dec-01-19 06:06 AM
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#8. "RE: Two of this year's movies ...Ki"
In response to Reply # 7


          

I've heard for many years, and not just from Beau, that they take great liberties...as a general rule.
Well, Disney controls much so ... if they control it like they do the news, it's understandable.

Tennessee Dave

"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God"
Author unknown

  

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blamourThu Dec-05-19 01:11 PM
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#9. "RE: Two of this year's movies ...Ki"
In response to Reply # 8


          

To their credit, "real" does not necessarily make a good story. Making a story satisfying, and getting it to "feel" real, often are the opposite of specifically accurate in all details.

Think of the map you might buy at a gas station. Is it accurate? Are the towns and the roads really that big in comparison to everything around them? Is "every detail" represented? No. The map shows you what is important to someone driving. A 100% accurate map would be THE SIZE OF THE AREA DEPICTED ON THE MAP ... a 100% depiction of the territory. The reason you pay for the map is that its inaccuracies are tailored to your needs and it's usefulness.

Stories are the same, whether adapting them from real life or from another medium. You don't pay for a movie to be exactly like a book ... if you did the movie would just show you the printed pages. You pay for the story to be interpreted into a movie for you. The fact that this is hard is why it's wonderful when it's completely satisfying.

  

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